Talk:Why Light Should Have Legitimately Won
There are a few problems with your theory, firstly let us immagine a perfect utopian society, oh how droll, the boredom of a society where only the innocent live, Yawn. This is a world without progress, if there are no problems there are no solutions, this means boredom, which would probably have lead a bunch of poor humans to live in a boring world not unlike the Shinigami Realm. 50,000 years ago when our ancestors were attacked by wild animals they rectified the problem by carrying a sharp stick, those who had the stick would have a better chance of living, now let us fast forward a bit it's half past the future but still our past and we have landed on the moon, cured polio, elliminated smallpox (For the most part), vreated computers, invented transcontenental travel, and allot more stuff because someone decided to pick up a stick. Violence creates problems to solve we are getting better and better at solving them with newer ways to prevent it and we end up in a more or less safe society. Well fat lot of good that killing would do when we are inching closer to at least a near but not perfect utopia. Next le us have a hypothetical situation. A man is convicted of murder and dies via Death Note only to later be discovered of inocence, could anyone even those as smart as light predict that, no because light is no God, Ryuk himself said that the notebook just so happened to fall into lights hands, he was not destined for greatness he just was at the right place at the right time. He is just a human, humans make mistakes that is why we are human, Light does not really care he still killed any who got in his way for doing there jobs and showed manevolence in doing so, you want that as your God, cause I dont, that is a power hungry teen with a manevolent streak himself, At least Dexter makes is face to face with the killers when he kills them, and his targets are usually worse than Him. Light tands on the sidelines judging something he cannot fully comprehend, like L said Light has a childlike scence of Justice. I saved the best for last, it is simple and the main argument against your theory, No human no matter what abilities they have or use be it natural or be it supernatural, have the right to take anothers life, this goes for even killers, which Light is. The story is interesting but the idea you have should not be considered, an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, to put it less metaphoracally, you should not kill a killer the killer may have done a vile act, but in the end this person is still a human being with thoughts, feelings, emotions, family, friends, and all that stuff. You would only cause more grief to an already morbid situation, how is that a Utopia. Beastrider9 (talk) 11:45, September 20, 2012 (UTC) : In essence I must provide some small amount of evidence and basically regurgitate most of my original argument to come to the conclusions for the second time in a row, for people who fail to see it the first time : Your failing to see into the future, with a pretty limited view only pertaining to what the shinigami realm is. The so called "problems" with my theory are you mostly ignoring how things naturally happen and failing to see the benefits of a what will be a utopian society obviously after the darkest section (exterminating all crime). Also you must have skimmed my argument since you incorrectly used the term god in the dictionary relevant term that I did and have some points like "oh no, some innocent people might be killed on accident" which I already proposed someone that fails to see far enough ahead would mistake as actually being something of great importance in the big picture. If you go back and legitimately read the reasoning it makes most of your argument unviable towards the big picture argument and just supports you being part of the ignorant mass that fails to see how the benefits majorly outweigh the cons. Also, so what if the book just fell into Light's hands by chance, like I already previously said, there weren't many better candidates to have that happen to and basically society as a whole lucked out. Also you seem to think that because people don't have the right to take life, that that fact has actually stopped them for the past 32,000 years. If you read Thomas Hobbes who writes extensively on this subject and basically delivers a knock down argument on it, you can come to realize that your "rights" are pretty much just words that don't really matter unless you have a state that can legitimately have the authority and means to deliver justice, which can usually only be meted out after the crime is done. As i've previously stated Light has overcome that obstacle by being so effective that he actually has transcended what our current state can do today (aka pre-kira world) and is a legitimate deterence which makes humans more civilized than beforehand. Which is practically the only thing that differentiates a human from an animal (unbiologically obviously). So what if he kills like 300 million innocents by accident if he creates a world for the majority of people that is utopian like and probably epitomizes somewhere near the top of how much humans can diverge from nature which most professionals will call true progress. Sure your only slightly viable point is that we progress the most in times of pressure, but relatively all of these progress have hurt the environment more than helped, so while we have you seem to ignore the fact that our own world is detiorizing into the shinigami realm probably 100x faster or more than if we lived in Light's utopia. Almost all our time for the past century or so has been towards warfare and having the strongest authority or relevance over the world and its resources (which are dwindling due to your so called progress). Your failing to see that when no one has to worry about that or refuse world-benefitting policies only because they want the U.S. or another superpower to give them advanced weapons plans that they justify needing to be on a fair playing field if they are going to give their support. In Ligh'ts utopia which even if darker before the dawn would be worth it if he eliminates this lust for power in the world by every country because then people could focus on the things that really matter as in new resource options and making them last more than the next 100 years or so. Right now almost every rich country is spending most of their money on weapons and defenses and that information is only from whats been released to the public (implying there is more). If you haven't, which obviously you haven't read or seen anything on what our world should like over the next decade-century and how the last 2 centuries have pretty much screwed all future generations. Now even with the progress we've had, now that i've told you how its been mostly detrimental except for the possibility of the medical field and some civil engineering, do you really think people were unhappy beforehand? Realistically the whole idea of politics and state and anything else that governs the world is to achieve "the good life" for the majority of people. Light achieves that and makes it so that their is at least a 20x higher chance of giving the opportunity for saving future generations than the world we live in today. So basically youv'e made me regurgitate most of my original argument and show you how you are someone who has failed to see the big picture. Also what you didn't realize with an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind is that no one can get Kira's eyes because he is a symbol and also no one knows who he is, so basically he is bringing world peace. In essence your trying to be politically correct and it's cute in an adorable way, but basically all of history and nature is laughing its ass off at you, they're so many examples, cases, and evidence through them both that show how in the big picture your pretty much wrong empirically and it makes your look like a joke is this specific argument. Just to close up, it's pretty obvious that while Light may be power hungry, he is definitely worthly of it since the show legitimately stated that he was creating a utopia and of course he had to kill everyone that was trying to stop him since they were shortsighted and suppoted the world to rot. Evidence straight from the show of this is also shown in the epilogue thing when the two cops were dicussing if they did the right thing or not and their conclusion being that they only did the right thing because it was either his life (and all of those that will ever be affected by the crime he would have prevented) or theirs (which are monumentally insignificant in the big picture). In more evidence, if you have ever read political ideas or philosopical ideas that promote world peace, the essence of the problem in all of them (marxism,anarchy,etc...) is why they do sound awesome, the radical changes would have to be done globally so we could never hope of giving the majority the "good life" since making the changes global would be pretty much impossible. The reason that deathnote is so awesome, is because it is a tool that makes this global problem possible and is a solution to it and the argument at least against anarchy was the necessity for a state to stop crime that would stymie pursuit of the "good life" which was also solved by the deathnote in the hands of Kira. So basically Light with the deathnote solved all these problems of making a global utopia and thus leading a world where all environmental and cultural problems could be expunged (or at least have a legitimate potential and opportunity to). So your argument is politcally correct and adorable, but oh so weak. Comeback with something worthwhile if it exists, which I doubt highly in this specific situation. Rain Prince FinnTalk 16:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC) :: You know I like you I have always liked people who try to rationalize there psychosis such as your scewed view of humanity, Hell I try to rationalize that living in Hell would be better than Heaven because of my distain for a utopia, but then I do not believe in such places and I dont believe in Gods. Allow me to rationalize my psycosis right here. I will show you why utopia sucks and will even tell you why Lights world will fall. First Have you seen Demolition Man it is one of my favorie movies because it shows the bad side of Utopia. An entire society almost brought to shreds by one man, and to stop it they have to get a man who came from the same world as the man causing the destruction. You see thats the thing with Utopia, it is so easy to destroy, Lights world is no different. It will fall because it is contingent on light being kira, Lets say it is the future and light is alive and has brought his utopia to reality, he dies happy that he changed the world, the irony is that once he dies all it takes in one person noticing there are no more heart attacks to not only start right back up but become worse very quickly, suddenly there are no more concequences because "God" is dead, the police and military have probably weakened due to inexperiance in this world where there is fear in committiong crimes that they cant stop those who now are killing, and now you have a distopia. Lets say light before death let someone else be kira, ok you solved the problem even if this keeps happening all it takes is 1 bad decision in the new kira to start up all over again to dystopia, and these people are still human and humans make mistakes. You are the one who cant seem to grasp the future, You do grasp it well in terms of decades, but I am thinking centeries and millenia. A utopia is proff that now your extinction is imminent and dystopia always follows. The longer you hold it back the worse it will inevitably become. Utopia is a fools dream of paradise, there is a phrase that I live by, Leave well enogh alone, because no matter how smart you are, no matter how powerful, of how strong in the end when you screw with well enough then the balance shifts, order or chaos both are bad, only balance shows results. Call this Morbid but I like living in a world where I know that at any moment some idiot can destroy the world by launching 1 nuke, I like it better that that has not happened yet. I have studied Polotics, Phylosophy, Psychology, Physics, Biology, and many other subjects to a level that when I make even simple choices I I think hard about the concequence of these actions, really hard. I read your posts and while looking for a good long term plan, which it is, it is not looking long enough. That is the flaw in your argument and that is why Light is not as smart as he thinks. Beastrider9 (talk) 14:41, September 21, 2012 (UTC) ::: Man, beastrider9, your arguments are almost all just insulting me and provide zero evidence to support your debate! I dont understand why your trying so hard to make a joke out of yourself!!!! Anyways to point out the obvious answer to your one weak point: "What happens when Light dies". It's actually really simple. By that time he would without a doubt found a successor, in the first 4 years he already had takeda and the other guy (whose name i know starts with a "m" but can't remember). Imagine when the whole world would support him and people wouldn't for the most part fear to support him. He would have no problem finding proper candidates that he could procede to choose from. Also since I already foresaw this point being brought up (sigh I should have written this out in my original argument to avoid having to post again....), your next point will probably be that the deathnote will run out of pages. The answer to this is that nowhere in the deathnote is it said that you can't write on top of what you've already written or once Light has the world under his thumb he could use resources to invent a microscopic writing technique through technology (would be pretty simple in today's society, although have no use besides what Im saying right here) which could probably be used billions of times before the pages filled up (in the case that for some reason the shinigami pull another rule out of their ass saying that you can't write over what you've already written). So really that point you made is pretty miniscule in the big picture. You also fail to believe what is possible when you can manipulate the world's resources. Rain Prince FinnTalk 15:23, September 21, 2012 (UTC) :::: You don't seem to understand the comments I am posting really I am not inulting you though it may come off as such, I like your theory and it while at first seems to bee good the problem of utopia still stands, and I think you skipped over aomething, I brought up successors and said that it is still a temporary solution, as the crime rates lower the need for the death note lowers with it, then a small crime starts up again and it escalates, this will keep happening. Now Light chooses a successor, probably a good one, but you are not thinking far enough ahead, as time goes on more and more succesors will be needed, and the successors are still Human, Humans as I said make mistakes, someone eventually will choose the wrong guy and the utopia devolves into anarchy and chaos. I said it before I shal say it again I think in terms of Centeries and Millenia, you think merely in decaes and generations, Utopia and Dystopia are both bad, neither is good, both would fall, only balance guarentees survival. Also I think you should reread my previous post, you may have skipped a few things. As for evedence of my arguments, well humans are predictable creatures, they do predictable things. How long until the legacy of Kira is but a hollow world of fear and desparation where the criminals slowly build and build until the chaos breaks out. You see your entire argument hinges on this notion that utopia is good, that is not the case, besied the successors will be born from this utopia and thus will not have the same views on crime as Light they may see littering as enough to kill because of this utopia or even kill those whos only crime is being rude, what of inocence, what of our humanity, at what cost should we recieve utopia, do we need it, do we deserve it, more importantly do we want it. I alredy mentioned how Demolition Man showed why Utopia was bad, but the comic book watchmen shows that after the squid alien thing was released the world united againg a threat that was not there, but Rorshacs journal held the evedence to prove t the world what really happened, all that planing to prevent nuclear war is pointless if the journal of a dead man would mess everything up. That is my point, and it is why I hate the very concept of utopia, they fall, very easily. Beastrider9 (talk) 02:06, September 22, 2012 (UTC) First of all, I really do not like people with bad grammar. Second, a world where a someone controls the population through fear will not work. Eventually, some random brave person will find a random way to defeat the ruler, and society will go nowhere. I despise criminals, like many people, but Light Yagami should not have been allowed to stay alive. Sure, he could be oblivious again, but wha good would that do? Millions of people died, including innocent ones, and the killer is allowed to stay alive? I am not a fangirl of any character, so you could say I am predjuced against all the characters. I do not think I am so much better than you just because I think Light shouldn't have won. The world's population would go down and down if Light won, because that means so would Teru Mikami. Mikami would terminate every single person guilty of the slightest crime, and something tells me that's, oh, about everyone! Also, the makers of Death Note would have to rewrite the entire script. Say he dies in what, 2056. So Ryuk will just kill him then? I know countless of Light fangirls are upset at his death. I am not a fangirl of L or Light, but yes, I watched Death Note on Adult Swim. Seriously, people, stop falling in love with anime characters. People ALWAYS put themselves with L or Light because let's face it, they're pretty much the main characters. Build a bridge and get over yourselves! 23:14, September 30, 2012 (UTC)firelilyflower I know this is a rather broken and lazy responce; maybe not even an agurement. The future you, Mark, mention isn't a future of humans. Being human is the definition of being flawed. With this future it would be the good of whatever is there, as it implies that humans have evolved to something bigger and better. 05:28, December 3, 2012 (UTC) ---- This is a response to Mark's 3000 'word argument about why Light should have won. Okay, so I want to keep this succint as it's easy to TL;DR, so I'll break this up into paragraphs and bold the important stuff. Before I begin, I just want to say that I was rooting for Light the whole time, and I don't intend to go down the garden path of 'being politically correct' as Mark has told us. The first issue that I would like to respond to is the fact that 'Light was trying to attain peace'. First off, it's important to establish '''what peace actually is'' - and while there's tons of ambiguity and nuances that consist of what 'peace' is, I think a definition we can all, or mostly agree on, is one of consentual abiding of laws and the absence of crime and acts that harm others, with society leading happy lives as a result''.' These two factors are contingent upon one another and true peace can't be brought about if one of these factors is missing. So let's examine what Light's version of peace is: '''A totalitarian world where one figure (Light, who considers himself a God) controls everyone through the fear of death should they committ crimes. Think about it this way - you wouldn't be happy leading your life if there was an omnipotent figure watching your every move, even if you were a 'politically correct' and law abiding person. Humanity craves the power to make decisions, whether those decisions be right or wrong, when we lose that capacity we lose a component of our happiness. Or think about it another way: Dictatorships will always prevent peace, and in fact do the opposite of Light's intentions, create conflict and disagreement. Just look at the Arab Spring, and particularly, the Syrian rebellion. So on a preemptive note, there will always be people who disagree from the ruling party, and when you factor in that this is a totalitarian regieme, you're bound to not only have a more people disagreeing but more radical opposition as well. In fact, considering that Light gets the majority of his information from the Internet, Light is (unintentionally or not) creating a rift between people by fracturing their connections with each other. He's fostering an untrustworthy, global culture. For example, if you knew that your friends, family or anyone you knew could put your name on the Internet and have the possibility of having you killed, it's as if a stake has been driven between your connections. You'd be less willing to share information just in case the person you confided in disagreed. By doing so, you allow emotional, subjective people to make unjust and unqualified decisions that may determine a person's life. Finally, peace was not Light's overall objective.'' Aside from the God Complex, which could be an argument unto itself, Light doesn't simply want to just eliminate crime. Kiyomi Takada states that that '''Kira will no longer just be focussing on those who commit crimes, but those who are lazy', (this is paraphrased) which Light agrees with, despite saying that she announced this fact 'too soon'. Interestingly, Mark seems to have missed this. By doing so, Light is taking away the autonomy of the individual to lead their lives as they choose, and based on his past behaviour we can feasibly imagine that his ideologies would become increasingly radical over time. In conclusion, Light's version of peace wouldn't actually be peace, in fact it would segment society, create rifts. conflicts between pro and anti-Kira supporters and finally his version of peace extends to areas that impinge on other fundamental human rights. This is 500 words long now and I don't want to write any more. The other major issue I haven't covered is a direct response to Mark's question 'is murder wrong?' - I do disagree with him saying that that was the core question of the anime, personally I believe that it is '''does the end justify the means?' ''If anyone wants to have a go at it, be my guest. - Ravelment : So this is Mark again, Whoa i forgot about this article i made. It is pretty awesome though. Cool. Just a few things in response to Ravelment: : 1. "Does the end justify the means" - i feel this is a question that is a direct child of the father question "is murder wrong". What i mean by this is that the "is murder wrong" question is at the one thing that can be a common denominator for the plethora of big ethic/moral questions in and for the series. So thats the reasoning behind why i chose "is murder wrong?" when i made the decision for what the main question of the anime/manga was in my mind. : 2. Dictatorships you could argue at times have had weapons to make people do their bidding and follow them, but i dont think they or any real life examples are really valid because the deathnote and kira represents something that is quantifiably decently different. (if you want to argue otherwise....fine...sigh, but i dont think its relevant (not to say that i dont have an arsenal of evidence and thought to combat it) sigh). i hate (lol jk, totally love) to quote batman: "But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely." On that note Kira and his deathnote are unknown, which means there is no face to the image and no one even know how he is doing it. He has become the ideal and by doing so has become impervious to defloration. So from that i'll assume you gather the meaning behind the difference in weapons, nonexistence of propaganda, and other factors that completely change the situations they're meant to create and shows the difference between our world and the anime/manga world. They are for the most part in this department, logistically uncomparable. If you need me to go into a much more lengthy explanation with evidence and so on, message me privately or something. my screenname on here is "Rain Prince Finn". : 3. With the pretty worded stake through people's connections bit kind of has some flaws. Kind of as in what is says is pretty accurate, but did not foresee the length into the future i did for Light's world. While explaining this i'll also reveal my rebuttal against the decision making part. Now, like i already said, their will without a doubt be a huge number of people that slip the cracks of the big picture in relation to the whole trust part you discussed. BUttttttt, eventually Light will have narrowed down the population enough that this shouldnt be an issue, and what i mean by that is how he would have definitely down the road have implemented an organized fashion of getting reliable information on crime and a person of his calibre would definitely have a set of princples (for instance gauging what constitutes death). The problem at the moment in the prekira society is that there is way too much crime, so deciphering this information within the time limit of that would be impossible (i can only imagine, realistically). Trust would not be an issue, because this would be the french revolution in regards to the guillotine, but with Light it would be organized and based on evidence to create justice, after the bloody part ends and Kira society is entered, if you werent and arent committing crime, you would legitimately have nothing to fear and you would be able to trust. What constitutes crime worthy of death would have been long defined by the time of actually entering idealistic kira society. Also on the whole power to make decisions, that isn't been taken away from any human right or wrong. The consequences to making a decision have been changed. It just means that humans have not had their power to make decisions hindered, but rather more controlled onto what is logically the correct thing to do, so they would if anything be progressing humanity (in the sense that progress is supposed to be from deviating from a primal nature state). Oh also on a sidenote, Light didn't get all his information from just the internet, but from reliable websites including mostly police records and most wanted lists. For any moments that deviated from that, there are more than reasonable explanations to compensate. : 4. Defining peace. Well. hmm. How should i go about discussing this. hmm. well. defining peace. I think its better to start with what peace is based on. All philosophy and politics is based off of attaining the good life. Peace is a term i was using to describe a period where the majority would have the means to pursue what is the good life to them. So im being very utilitarianisitic. The problem that most liberals and your definition lack to comply with is the LACK of resources there are. There is indefinitely competition, so basically Light gets rid of crime so people earn their way by more traditional means. Now I dont see how your factors of the way YOU define peace aren't met, but for sake of not prolonging this debate, we will go with your definition of peace. The problem doesn't lie in peace, but that our versions of the supposed Kira society are different, your argument is all dependent on your own assumptions to be true, i cant say mine isnt the exact same, but i feel with the way the characters acted and progressed through the show itself as evidence, my way is likely more probable, as ive enlightened some depth in this post. : 5.i think you said something on human rights, but im not down to scroll back up. So just on human rights, i hope you didnt make the assumption that they trump everything, because there are many. many. flaws with that, as much as society leads and grows at least in western culture for people to believe differently. If you want more information or explanation as to how (please figure it out so i can do less), send me a private message...Oh, and i have no defense to the lazy thing, im a huge slacker and would totally be screwed if thats right, but i viewed all of this stuff in two days and wrote this article directly after so i dont remember, im sure i could have worked something out. Im positive that there is more to it than simply being lazy. : Ravelment, the first Respectable challenge, you havent changed my views, but you have increased my understanding of what we're discussing. Thats the beauty and horror of our values in argument, because it is possibly that they are radically different and that if we get to that stage, ill explain the advanced tactics of the inevitable impasse. Legit loved how you said the garden path politically correct bit, that was awesome. Personal victory with that view being shared, seeing as how its really the only view here that is relative to everyday interaction irl. : Seriously though, on a final note, who the f**k decided that we should start posting on my article itself, i am not down. This is lame, send it back to posts. Gahhhhhh, does this mean that others can edit my article itself!??! Nooooooooooooooooo, i might just have to take it down if my work isnt protected. : -Mark E. :: Hey, Mark E. I don't know who you are and I don't know why you're stubbornly created this junk. But I'm a Neutral guy who can't really say Light's defeat will make world any better or if he won the world will be better blah, blah. But let me say this: the idea of 'bigger picture' is wrong. Very wrong. The world is a gigantic puzzle, and those idiots and ignorant mass, evil or not, are pieces of the puzzle. Like it or not you will live with them, no matter how much of a nuisance they are to you and everyone else- because that is the world. :: Therefore, Light's choice to discards their lives for their 'unimportance' was his biggest mistake. Capturing people and make them repent is hard, but killing them is easy. Light chose that easy path, make it worse by becoming a merciless killer using the 'bigger picture' theory as an excuse, and finally lost in the end. This is a common mistake in 'righteous villain' type character; taking easy path and paying the price. :: That's why Near said in the end that Light is 'nothing but a murderer' in the end- by killing people even those of his own family or innocents for the sake of the 'bigger picture', he's the same as the criminals he have murdered. Not a 'savior', not a 'righteous god' or a 'righteous person' he thought he is. Just a killer. :: Near also said: 'those who couldn't solve the puzzle is a loser'. Light couldn't complete the 'world puzzle' since he's willingly to discard the seemingly small and unimportant pieces. That's what he had become: a loser. :: I hope that's enough for you and please delete this whole page of nonsense ::: My god your argument is so invalid, there is no evidence or strength in what you support, why do you want to clog my email. ::: Can I have a filter for this, to like stop all stupid posts? Like completely unbiased to their viewpoints, these posts should at least be legitmate challenges........ ::: AND WHY ARE WE STILL POSTING ON MY ARTICLE!!!! THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR COMMENTS< WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TALK PAGE!!??! ALL OF THIS SHIATE UNDER MY ARTICLE IS NOT PART OF MY ARTICLE!!! ::: - a not happy Mark E. :::: Hello, Mark. I can lock your article page, although you should be prepared to have people respond to it anyway. And everything short of trolling is allowed, not just comments that you find valid. And to the person above Mark: this page will not be deleted, because this is Death Note Fanon Wiki. This wiki is about what's created by fans, and may contain things that you consider "nonsense." You will find many different opinions here and if you can't handle that, this may not be the best site for you. And to everyone: please try to keep the discussion friendly. :) MarleneZ.Talk 06:04, December 26, 2012 (UTC) This whole topic is interesting. And I must say that neither Dictatorship or Utopia won't work for humans. I always like to say that we need The Golden Middle, which is of course, impossible. So, we live where we live. Hm, it would be really intriguing to see the world where Light won, it would be fun to read it, but in the real world, I don't know would that Godlike reign ever be the answer because people don't like when they are restricted, we love freedom. And, mostly because of that freedom we have to pay the price, and yet, even if we know that someone like Light could give us the opportunity to behave better, we wouldn't be happy about it. Hm, I think that nothing is good for us, human beings. Anyway, in your article, you said that Light is smarter than L (somewhere in the beginning). In my opinion, that is not true. Of course, Light is brilliant, I am astonished by his intelligence at his age, but he had a lot of helpers and he had the advantage because he had the Death Note, while L, he didn't have anything. He started from scracth and... well... I respect all those policemen around him but... they couldn't compete with Light, only L. So, if L had more information he would win. So, basically, to my mind, L is more smarter than Light. I think that even the author stated it. Overall, I like your topic. It is amusing. Do I agree with you? I don't know. Because I learned that people are unpredictable and everything is possible. So, even Light's reign, if he had won, it could have been broken apart. M. I was interested in this theory at first, but the more I read into it the more bored I became because it's nothing more than some bored member's critique that really does not shed any light on why Kira (Light) did not have to die. Basically this person just went on the wiki page to rant about people needing to educate themselves, etc while trying to proclaim why Light was making a better world. Personally I feel that if Light were a real person he would be disgusted with the way you tried to prove your theory by basically acting like a condescending brat. Don't You think so? I'm going to be straight to the point, and not post a whole book of this. I understand the topics creators frustation, we live in a sad world, a society where people put on a mask of a two-bit goodie and pretend to be defenders of virtues, let alone when exposed shuck of their vices with humour. The idealistic opinion that no lifes are needed to be sacrificed for a bigger good is a dream, a never ending one. Look to your past, history. Much of our victories or acomplishments were based on gallons of sweat, tears and blood. From human experimentation, to war. That is the ugly truth, kill some people in order to protect others, murder some to save all. Although all evil men are human, and all humans merely try to live they're lives the only way they know how. There are people who learn to embrace this, some who can't accept it, and some who are better of living to they're own principles. Yagami lived a life of murder, who wrote his own justice. This video describes perfectly what I'm trying to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz-YN5ZtXC0 Mitsurugi, the same bringer of mans end as Death Note. An example of Light Yagami's life would be Alexander the Great, if you are acquainted with his life, you will understand that he was a man of ambition, to be a god, forever known, and shining, well he is famous today that is for sure, but his ambition did not sit well with the people, he was holding his dreams and ambitions for himself, not for the good of people. Oh how Japanese people are trying to explain to us today, that killing is not the way to save the world, we CAN '''change it without taking our fellow mans life, who is just like us in every way. So, I'm sorry, halfway through writing this, I understand that to lead justice through your own ambition formed picture, is wrong, even if it is for the greater good in the long run, there will always be pain and hatred for the loss of life, which is not good. In the long end all of us hear this in our religion, that God is the only true Justice, and at his hand, justice shall come. Or to say it to an atheist, nature does its course for the mortal man. Also while there is man, there will always be good and evil which are arbitrary, in our chaotic world. Though I would like to tell you good news, man is improving, and we are heading towards a perfect society always defeating problems, and valiantly meeting arising ones. To put it shortly, there are no eternal facts, as there are no '''absolute truths. What you believe in is all that matters, some believe that love is the answer, some think it is power, that was the case with Light Yagami, and in our history Niccolo Machiavelli, who thought through power and fear people can be controlled, by throwing your influence on them, in time even that power corrupts, and the authority is ruling by their own ambitions and their own means to meet they're goals while your own people live in your shadow of distrust and revolt. The thinking of a winner is deeply within our every instinct, it's outragious, it's primal and egoistic, we wish to thrive among our peers, among society. You think of the world how it should be, not how as it is. Yet we never think about the greater good, about others. We already make the world a better place for those around us by always smiling, lending our hand, and believing in them. It's not about changing the world, it's about doing your best to leave the world as it is. It's about respecting the will of others and believing in your own. -- Another quote from the famed japanese Metal gear solid series Big Boss final words after reminiscing, that he has been seeking what is impossible, fighting many battles for his liberty yet being trapped in it's limits. However, if you wish to be entertained by my darker side of thoughts. I'd say that Light was just screwed, man. The author was damn cruel to him, in the end his work and his goal was all crushed, by a guy who couldn't even handle himself and figure out what's good for him. And they took away his little book, his right to toying with lives, that's so unfair! I mean, I would be pissed if someone took away my power to change the world. It doesn't matter if some next door old timer didin't agree on my view. I mean, that's me, I'm not being egoistic, No, I just think that im right, who cares about the 1 million lives I'm about to send to nowhere without them knowing, I'm wasting my precious time to kill them anyway (It's my time to shine, I'm the new dictator,hasta la vista weaklings), they should be glad too, they're graves will mark a better world to come. Everyone will know, not to mess with me, or they'll be raped by my awesome magical notebook. That's exactly how I imagine a self-absorbed Yagami Light in his friday after noon shower having a dialogue with himself while scrubbing his butt. No, seriously, a man with a gun is to be feared, especially a one with bad aim, you might not know where the bullet could go, he might kill an evil rat, or the next time his own favourite tv. My last thoughts are these.. Kira will always be a mass murderer, trying to throw on his own justice to the people,eventually as i said he would become a tyrant oppressing people, and deciding what is right and wrong, if you need proof of that by the franchise, halfway the anime, he states that even lazy people will die, hes already moving up one big step ahead, punish not only those who do bad, but those who are also weak. Hes trying to make his own perfect world, there thus killing of almost everyone, except those that are useful to him. Obviously not respecting others nor trying to understand them, a criminal stealing bread could be very well providing it to his family that lives under the bridge, or robbing that bank just to buy medicine for his sick mother, the other rest that are rich and powerful are driven by ambition, just like Light is. That is the way this world rolls. If Yagami's actions are right to you, honoring hitler or stalin should be no problem, as they too did what they had to for they're country. Reply to the answer posted on 06:, December 26, 2012 - The middle between Utopia and Dictatorship? Roman empire at its peak. Truly a marvolent empire, yet truly splendid as it was, it fell and was brought to ruin in a matter of hundrets of years. To the same corruption, greed, and disloyalty. A great man named Augustus Caesar made it came to be. and the people made it come to an abrupt end. I guess that means, a man with great strength can mold the society to his will, yet time returns everything back to dust, only by collectively making step by step progress can humans go further and never back. Make a big jump, or throw a leash on man, take everything away from him, and he will rise in agony ir disatisfaction. In the end the great Roman empire, was just a tyrant to all other villages and countries that it conquered, people were enslaved and they're freedom taken, that's what this free people empire lived on, that was they're economy. Reply to Beastrider9. -Your example is totally out of way and very wrong, people did have violence and all that, but it was in our primal times. We are way pass that. Crime is what shows our dark side, of what we become, and murder is part of it. Quite the contrary if crime was to disappear, imagine how many happy people there should be, because automatically we should be able to solve problems like homeless people, poor class of people, the hungry people, in other words make most (but ambitional) people happy. If we did that, we could focus on our other problems, like global warming, or expanding our knowledge of the universe. It's all good stuff, crime is just humans hurting other humans, for the sake of gaining something while at the same time taking away. I would go as to say that communism was an example of a equal society, if not for the oppressive politics and corrupted goverment. Restart101 (talk) 23:17, January 5, 2013 (UTC) Rytis.